Natural Talent Vs Will power

[Godless]

Originally Posted by winterweird

I think creativity, more or less, can be learned. Talent is just a booster, not something entirely new and forever untouchable by those who weren't born lucky. On the other hand, if you don't need to sweat your butt off to be decent at something, maybe you'll have more time to think about innovation. But talent is not innovation, not in my book.

We have a different opinion then, i don't subscribe to the idea anybody can achieve anything just through hard work.

i also don't think creativity can always be learned.

i'll give u a real life exmpl

I remember teaching 2 of my friends to play guitar,
One of my friends learned the song i taught him perfectly but he never made his own song.

My other friend didn't quite learn it perfectly but he quickly started making his own songs.

I noticed the 2nd guy had a naturally affinity towards music. he practiced to get better but i saw in him creativity.
the other guy never cared to develop such creativity.

[winterweird]

Originally Posted by Godless

We have a different opinion then, i don't subscribe to the idea anybody can achieve anything just through hard work.

i also don't think creativity can always be learned.

i'll give u a real life exmpl

I remember teaching 2 of my friends to play guitar,
One of my friends learned the song i taught him perfectly but he never made his own song.

My other friend didn't quite learn it perfectly but he quickly started making his own songs.

I noticed the 2nd guy had a naturally affinity towards music. he practiced to get better but i saw in him creativity.
the other guy never cared to develop such creativity.

Let me rephrase: Creativity can be learned through hard work. Or moderate work, depending on whether you're naturally creative or not. In your example, it seems to me that the first guy didn't care enough to try using his creativity. That doesn't mean he couldn't, if he had worked hard at it.

Also let me rephrase: I think talent is a way to accomplish more in less time. In other words, give me a hundred years of practice with a healthy, young body, and I'll match Michael Jordan. However, I don't have a hundred years. Talent doesn't affect how far you potentially could go, only the time it takes you to get there. Put differently, lack of talent doesn't limit your potential. Lack of time does.

At least, this is how I see it.

[KeN]

I would say that will power in people can change much more things in the powers.
Cause if we were all ( I mean all the human kind) given natural talent such as sports,art...
Well, the society wouldnt progress like it did throughout history,
I used to follow the statement that making mistakes is a fundammental lesson for not making anymore.

[Zinq]

Can you achieve greatness through will power OR are some ppl just born great?

I am currently studying psychology, sociology and anthropology.

So speaking out from what I've learned from this, as this has been a topic and an assignment, is that all people are born with potential from their parents DNA, now this does not mean that if your parents are not smart you won't be either. This means that if your parents had the potential to be a genius so do you.

At this point it is a lot about where you grow up, the environment you're in and how you dedicate yourself to exploit this potential that you have. Say that you are born with a talent for football as an example, if you grow up in for Spain, where football is a very popular sport, you will obviously have more people to play with and evolve with. Now from here is it about wether or not you have DNA and dedicate yourself that makes you a genius in football or not.

Say that you do have the DNA, this would make it easier for you to learn and evolve your skills, you would surpass people and be dominant in the early stages. However if you do not have the DNA, it would still be possible to become better than those who have DNA, because the person with the DNA can't exploit it because he is born in a different environment where he can't play that much.

The most important part of this is how your parents treat you at the age from 0-2, if they give you toys that makes you use your brain you will automatically become more advanced than others, you will find what you're good at earlier and be able to get an advantage. (rash explanation)

TL;DR
You can achieve greatness through both willpower and DNA, however it is the combination between those two that will make the best possible outcome.

[SeaFoamDaisies]

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[Godless]

@Winter

Actually both guys are still my friend but the first guy isn't a very creative person the 2nd guy is.

It's part of their personality, it's their outlook on life.
And by your logic the less talented person is always playing catch up so doesn't that mean the naturally talented person has the upper hand on him?

[winterweird]

Originally Posted by Godless

@Winter

Actually both guys are still my friend but the first guy isn't a very creative person the 2nd guy is.

It's part of their personality, it's their outlook on life.
And by your logic the less talented person is always playing catch up so doesn't that mean the naturally talented person has the upper hand on him?

Which proves... what, exactly? I'm still convinced that creativity is something you can learn. However, some people have an easier time learning. They are talented at creativity. See what I'm getting at?

And yes, that's true.... as long as the talented person actually DOES work hard. Which is kind of my point. Great accomplishments require three things: Talent, time, AND hard work. And of the three of them, the only one you can possibly leave out is "talent".

[Godless]

Originally Posted by winterweird

Which proves... what, exactly? I'm still convinced that creativity is something you can learn. However, some people have an easier time learning. They are talented at creativity. See what I'm getting at?

And yes, that's true.... as long as the talented person actually DOES work hard. Which is kind of my point. Great accomplishments require three things: Talent, time, AND hard work. And of the three of them, the only one you can possibly leave out is "talent".

Yes i see your point and i think you see mine i think you just don't agree with it.

I don't think given enough time hardwork can always replace natural talent and creativity cause during that time a talented person is gonna be even more advanced (Providing he works hard too)

[winterweird]

Originally Posted by Godless

Yes i see your point and i think you see mine i think you just don't agree with it.

I don't think given enough time hardwork can always replace natural talent and creativity cause during that time a talented person is gonna be even more advanced (Providing he works hard too)

But we're asking whether such a thing as greatness can be achieved without talent. I think yes. It'll just be harder. Too hard for most. I never denied whether a talented person will always beat a non-talented person when they work just as hard. But talent is just one part of the equation, and it's the only part which can be left out entirely. That in itself is a valid argument for why hard work is more important, I think.

[Godless]

@Winter

It is a valid argument and im glad you're on the other side of the argument defending it properly.

Yea, you saying a less talented person can catch up but it takes him double the effort and time, but tell me

If i takes me 1 yr to accomplish what another person can accomplish in 5, who is more efficient? who is most likely to advance the field they're in?

i do subscribe to the mindset that ppl need to think they can do anything another person can do, i think ppl need to have that drive however realistically i don't think we're all capable of the same thing this is why humanity's greatest minds stand out.

i mentioned Pat duffy in the intro, for those of you who don't know him, he is the first skater that started grinding on rails.

Before him, no one thought that was possible but after he did it everybody knew it was possible.
He did this as a teen in a time other professional skaters with more experience didn't even think of attempting this.